What Humanism Means to Me (And What It Doesn't)

Debate/discuss matters pertaining to humanism, or a humanist viewpoint

What Humanism Means to Me (And What It Doesn't)

Postby evangelicalhumanist on Sun Jun 22, 2008 12:16 pm

Note: This is a copy of an article posted on the main page, copied here in the hope of generating some discussion.

It’s a little scary to publish my own understanding of Humanism. Many much finer thinkers than I have certainly done justice to the subject. Still, it seems to me that no philosophy is complete without the individual, often idiosyncratic, interpretation of the holder. So, what follows here is entirely my own opinion. Though I include bits of definitions given by others, this is not intended to be a definition of Humanism.

I label myself a Humanist because my personal views seem to fit best (yet still imperfectly) within that world-view. The three Humanist Manifestos all ring substantially true to me, though I could not sign any of them if it meant my unqualified acceptance of every article. I don’t necessarily agree with everything claimed by other Humanists, nor, I suspect, would they completely accept my views. This is probably a good thing. Dogmatic creeds, after all, do run rather contrary to the spirit of Humanism.

One Overview of Humanism
As ruthlessly condensed by me, Humanism is a philosophy which acknowledges that humans can and should take responsibility for their own lives. We must behave ethically to others, since as social animals our individual well-being is made more secure through the common well-being of all. Humanists use reason, informed by experience, and tempered by compassion as the primary guide to life’s questions. Above all, Humanists assert that every person has an intrinsic dignity and worth, and is entitled to the pursuit of his or her own goals in a well-lived life. Humanists accept that man is an integral part of the natural world, evolved to take his place among the rest of nature. We assert that ethical values are founded upon human welfare, needs and interests, including the need to preserve the natural world that sustains us. Humanists accept that, as social animals, most of life’s meaning is to be found in our relationships with others, and as a consequence we have a duty of concern and care, which properly exercised can increase the world’s measure of peace and prosperity.

That’s a very abridged version, and no doubt there are many who will take issue with how I’ve phrased it, or with what I have omitted. I ask only that you be patient for now, as I elaborate my own, personal Humanism.

Are Humans Really “Special?”
Well, the obvious and frivolous answer first. Humans are special because I’m human – because I deserve care and consideration, then others do, too.

For the religious, it is usually a given that man, created by God, is special for that very reason, and that reason alone. It is in my mind a serious flaw in that view that we are in the form that we are finally meant to be. A Humanist would find this hard to accept, and I certainly do. We must never imagine we are “the end point” of evolution, because evolved we are, and evolution will continue as long as life continues. Nobody alive today, should they be permitted to see many millennia into the future, would recognize their distant offspring as entirely human.

Humanism is not some sort of “speciesism,” which I think a completely religious view of man may be. Most Humanists would recognize that in a natural world (which we accept this to be), every species in some way serves the needs of other species. The Humanist should insist, however, on avoidance of unnecessary cruelty.

But neither of these points speak to our “specialness,” without which Humanism would have no point. I have no time (or ability) to explore the various materialist or dualist philosophies, but what seems clear to me, whether we believe it to be the result of a separate soul or an emergent property of our brains, is that we enjoy a rich, conscious mental life. We have the ability to be aware of our own mental states, to appreciate and evaluate them. And to anticipate! We can look forward, judge our often conflicting desires, and decide whether to act on them or not. I think it is this ability to stand back from and appraise our own mental states, and using that appraisal make plans for the future, that makes humans special in the world. I do not believe, much less know, that any other animal does this to even a remotely comparable degree. It is this, I think, that makes us special. Humans experience hope, faith, love fear, joy, sadness, anticipation, wonder – and feeding these back through our mental processes, develop an almost infinitely rich array of responses.

Are humans special enough to deserve our own –ism? You bet! While perhaps not completely masters of our own destiny, we at least, unlike other animals, have our hands upon the tiller.

Religion
There are branches of Humanism that reject religion absolutely, and propose that, in the words of Protagoras, “Man is the measure of all things.” Indeed, Humanist Manifesto III states, “Humans are an integral part of nature, the result of unguided evolutionary change” and though I personally believe this, I could not swear to it. That is, I affirm with complete certainty that humans have evolved. I am not as certain (although I believe it to be the case) that our evolution was totally unguided. My point is that I don’t think it’s foolish to suppose that there may have been some measure of guidance.

Humanism is not in itself a religious philosophy, but religion is not excluded – at least not from my version. There are certainly self-styled Humanists who are religious, and I don’t think that they are completely antithetical world-views. Even for religious Humanists, the focus is usually pretty much secular because it is on the human, not on the divine. This is certainly true of my version, and from my limited exposure, that of religious Humanists, too. It seems obvious to me that a believer who, when considering matters of importance concerning humans and humanity in general, uses reason and human needs as guide in preference to the divine, can be a Humanist. This is not to deny the divine, but to relegate it to its proper place in personal spiritual reflection.

The supernatural may exist, but as entirely natural creatures in an entirely natural universe, it is closed to us – we cannot perceive it directly, or when we suppose we do, it is indistinguishable from fantasy or hallucination. I am comfortable when people believe. I am less comfortable when believers hope for divine assistance, yet hope is not a bad thing, provided it is supported by actions of our own. I am not comfortable when I am asked to believe, or reviled for not believing.

The key point, with respect to religion, is that my Humanism (like that of most others, I suspect) rejects all religious or supernatural beliefs in understanding or resolving human affairs and dilemmas.

Absolutist “faiths” of every kind, including secular ones such as doctrinaire political –isms, are the primary source of evil in this world. The secular Humanist (and perhaps even the religious one, too) would lump Nazism, doctrinaire Communism, and dogmatically fundamentalist religions together in terms of their capacity to bring misery.

Reason
Humanism must ultimately rely on reason because we are surely ignorant of any divine will, if it exists. “Divine truth,” as it has been variously revealed, is conflicting and confusing – which itself has been the cause of much suffering. As a Humanist, I will insist that, if there is “divine truth,” it applies only to the individual to whom it is revealed. What is revealed to one person cannot be meant to apply to another to whom, in spite of presumably having the power to do so, no deity chose to reveal it.

Now, I am often reminded that reason doesn’t seem to work as effectively as Humanists would like to insist. For example, since The Enlightenment, we have seen the most destructive wars in history. This is true enough. The Enlightenment didn’t create purely rational men, although reason was held in high esteem. As I will show a little further on, humans are incapable of pure reason, pure good, or pure anything. Still, we observe that wars become more destructive not necessarily because we’re more violent, but because we have more technologically powerful and destructive weaponry. (If nothing else, this ought to make us more careful!). And may I further note that, even since The Enlightenment, there has still been plenty of religion around, and it has been no more effective than reason at preventing the horrors of war.

Ethics & Morals
Given the previous section, it seems likely to me that what drives us to war or kindness, and to many other very human follies and triumphs, is completely human – bound up in our very nature – neither rational nor religious. And it is true, Humanism doesn’t assert that “humans are good,” (nor bad) but only that every human has an inherent dignity and worth.

What can it be about our nature that leads to such a dichotomy?

Humans are deeply conflicted. As social animals, we depend utterly upon one another, and as a result share many of the instincts common to other social species. These include following obvious leaders, reciprocal altruism, the need for social approval, etc. But we are not only social – we are thinking and reasoning individuals. We have our own individual needs, and we are frequently willing to default on every social contract in order to satisfy them. This is not “evil” but it may be the source for what the Christian religion calls “original sin.” It is a conflict that does, after all, originate in our very nature – or perhaps I should say “our two natures.”

"Know thyself," said Socrates, not "change thyself."

Humans (and thus their societies) are by their very nature imperfectable. Utopianism – political or social – argues the opposite, and always leads to horror because it is so very wrong in principle.

Our moral sense must be informed by human needs. Dietary laws (don’t eat pork or shrimp, etc.) and most social behaviours are not moral issues. Sexual orientation, early-term abortion, stem cell research, AIDS prevention through condom use, contraception, HPV vaccinations for girls and many more are examples of issues that must be resolved through reference to the human, not to the divine, and through reason rather than superstition.

Our treatment of each other, our behaviours with respect to the well-being of others, are most assuredly moral issues. Anything that has the potential to impact others, directly or indirectly, is a moral issue. Thus, we must respect our neighbour’s property, family, dignity and life. And everyone is our neighbour. This goes so far as to require respect for the entire planet, and any other we might someday visit. Earth, this "pale blue dot" is, as Carl Sagan says, “the only home we know,” and it is our neighbour’s home, too. “Treat this world as if there is no other” says Edward O. Wilson, whatever you may feel compelled to believe about other levels of existence. I don’t think a real Humanist can do otherwise without being hypocritical.

Stories and Meaning
I said earlier that all humans – even secular Humanists – may experience hope, faith and love, and much else besides.
Nothing worth doing is completed in our lifetime, therefore we are saved by hope. Nothing true or beautiful or good makes complete sense in any immediate context of history; Therefore, we are saved by faith. Nothing we do, however, virtuous, can be accomplished alone. Therefore, we are saved by love. No virtuous act is quite as virtuous from the standpoint of our friend or foe as from our own; therefore, we are saved by the final form of love, which is forgiveness.”
(Reinhold Niebuhr, The irony of American History)

But note that this is not necessarily religious in tone, though religion would understand the sentiment immediately. Still, secular Humanists would also understand it every bit as well in the context of this world, its past and its future. Humanist spirituality comes as a result of seeing oneself as an integral part of a reality that we cannot fully understand. We can love because of our dependence on others, we can hope because we believe the world will continue and that we will have an impact upon it, we have faith that the world does, after all, make sense, even if it is not guided by an unknown “intelligence.”

We are finite beings in a universe we can’t really even define as “infinite,” it is so far beyond our understanding. We are temporal creatures looking into the bottomless abyss of eternity. Our conscious reason allows no means of understanding what it could mean, in death, to have no consciousness at all. How much more mystery can there be than knowing that the universe, and our existence with it, must remain forever beyond our total comprehension?

Art, music and myth are the preferred delivery vehicles for these “spiritual” notions, since they speak in metaphoric language to our individual experience, and therefore engage not only our reason but our imaginations and deepest feelings – our souls, if you will. We can relate to and internalize stories. Our stories, art, poetry and music, religious and secular, help us to connect to the mystery. That there should have been so many resurrection myths, so many heroic tales and failed heroes to boot, parables and morality plays, comedies of manners and romantic tragedies – all serve to connect us to the ultimately unfathomable business of being human. It is another conundrum of human life that we have too much intelligence to accept our experiences without question, and too little to completely grasp the answers.

Our stories, great and small, important and unimportant, are ultimately woven into the larger story of our kind, providing context and a way to make sense of our lives and the universe in which they unfold. The Humanist doesn’t reject story and myth, for that reason, but will never accept them as literal and historical truth. That (you may believe it or not) would utterly destroy their usefulness.

What Humanism is Missing
As I know it today, Humanism seems to miss those things that humans need to commune with each other, including most important rites of passage, ritual, milestones, charitable out-reach, or affirmation of our Humanist ideals amongst each other regularly and formally. Humanism doesn’t seem to me to really attempt to build the communities and human interconnections, to mark and celebrate the passage of our lives, that religions succeed so well at. I think this is a great failing.

I can’t help but wonder if “freethinking” carries within itself the seeds of its own destruction, the inability to fully commune with others in the way that religions seem to encourage and enable. For what I have described as a very social animal, this is almost certainly a fatal flaw.
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Re: What Humanism Means to Me (And What It Doesn't)

Postby Mirage on Tue Jun 24, 2008 12:58 am

Wow. Well, there is very little in that piece I can disagree with at all. Thank you for including room for people like me in humanism. I think it may be unfortunate that some of the more religious individuals could not sign the first Humanist Manifesto, because they felt even then religion was too excluded. Perhaps if they had signed, if more inclusion had happened there, we would all be the richer. I don't know. Perhaps not. Maybe the division was necessary at the time.

I admit that I have been a bit puzzled at the lack of strong community in secular humanism and humanism as a whole. We may not have a common God to unite us, but Christians and Buddhists and Hindus and such do not, either, and yet there are many organizations which exist to promote common goals and mutual understanding between them, and even a certain amount of fellowship. I'd love to see such a group include secular humanists, and there may be some, but I am not aware of any. Possibly some of the UU efforts.

I wonder if this is a matter of individualism, if humanists, in rejecting authority, also have a tendency to have trouble forming or belonging to regular groups. I have actually had some difficulty with that myself. It took me a very long time to find a church flexible enough for me, and even so, I don't necessarily agree with all of it 100%. I wonder if traditions seem irrational or too authoritative to many secular humanists. I think humanism certainly encourages us to respect the non-harmful beliefs of others, but I wonder if it encourages us whatsoever to share any beliefs or practices (other than for secular humanists one or more of 3 very different Manifestos). I am not sure it does. Secular humanism took a big step, in attempting to some degree to define what a secular humanist IS, as well as what s/he is not. Atheism only defines what one is not. However, maybe more agreement on the IS is needed. Problem is, trying to derive that might result in even more people unable to sign a new Manifesto, for various philosophical or ethical reasons (ex: people seem to differ on whether humanists should consider other animals equal in stature to humans).

I am wondering if secular humanism, or indeed humanism in general can really exist all by itself, or whether it is generally an adjunct to other beliefs and philosophies, and rather modifies those significantly. If that is the case, it may never form its own traditions and rites because the other beliefs may possibly be too varied to allow for it. I hope not, but I am leaning toward thinking so. Charity, though, I think should be a natural fit for humanists of all stripes. There I think the issue may be one of obscurity. Many humanists have probably never heard of them, or are either unaware or unconcerned whether the charities they sponsor are church based or not.
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Re: What Humanism Means to Me (And What It Doesn't)

Postby Baruch on Wed Jun 25, 2008 12:46 am

Three points ...

Any successful system must address the whole physical and psychological needs of human beings, and this includes social needs. Religion and spirituality are just one historical family of means of addressing this, but there may be other possibilities.

It is a weekness to define yourself in terms defined by your opponents. Humanism as a positive thing rather than a negative thing (anti-theism atheists) would be stronger. Judaism is week in so far as it defines itself in terms of the HaShoah, for instance. Or as being, anything but Gentile.

Humanism as freethinking pro-human individualism ... is too Western and modern. A broader definition of humanism would color outside the lines of the Western and modern mindset. I think of Confucianism as being very humanist but it is non-Western and not modern. I think one can be humanist, as pro-human ... but communitarian at the same time, even conformist or totalitarian. Individualism and freethinking are orthogonal to humanism, but commonly found together because humanism is commonly espoused by freethinking individualists (modern Westerners).

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Re: What Humanism Means to Me (And What It Doesn't)

Postby evangelicalhumanist on Wed Jun 25, 2008 12:13 pm

Baruch wrote:Three points ...

Any successful system must address the whole physical and psychological needs of human beings, and this includes social needs. Religion and spirituality are just one historical family of means of addressing this, but there may be other possibilities.

And I agree. I think this is what I was referring to at the end of my essay. In fact, of course, the UU church does attempt to do that, but I can't help feeling that the whole thing is sort of sloppy -- there are bits of Christianity along with a mish-mash of other things.

Is it something about me that won't allow that purely fanciful thinking is equated to spirituality? I mean, I know a whole lot of people who think that spirituality is achieved by getting all worked up in speaking in tongues, or performing this ritual or that. My own view is that true spirituality is a rather more solitary undertaking.

That, of course, leads away from the social needs, though, doesn't it? Is it possible, do you think, to attempt to consider in group-wise fashion the great mysteries of life without wrapping them up in liturgical garb? I think, when I come to it, that it's that which bugs me even about the UUs.
It is a weekness to define yourself in terms defined by your opponents. Humanism as a positive thing rather than a negative thing (anti-theism atheists) would be stronger. Judaism is week in so far as it defines itself in terms of the HaShoah, for instance. Or as being, anything but Gentile.

Was I defining myself in other people's terms? I didn't think so, but I suppose that in trying to answer criticisms, there is a tendency to do just that. I quite honestly think my personal humanism is a very positive world-view, with very strong moral and ethical principles, which just happen to be firmly and completely rooted in human needs, rather than divine commands.
Humanism as freethinking pro-human individualism ... is too Western and modern. A broader definition of humanism would color outside the lines of the Western and modern mindset. I think of Confucianism as being very humanist but it is non-Western and not modern. I think one can be humanist, as pro-human ... but communitarian at the same time, even conformist or totalitarian. Individualism and freethinking are orthogonal to humanism, but commonly found together because humanism is commonly espoused by freethinking individualists (modern Westerners).

Shalom

This last will require more thought. Not that I disagree, but I do find that I personally am not particularly communitarian, and this does seem to be the case for many humanists. There is a Humanist group in Toronto, but I haven't seen that there's a great deal of community activity. In fact, the couple of times I wandered by, during what were supposed to be core hours, they were closed!

I will come back to this, because I think it's important...
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Re: What Humanism Means to Me (And What It Doesn't)

Postby Baruch on Fri Jul 04, 2008 12:42 am

Because of your suffering, are you sure a lot of who you are isn't formed in reaction to that suffering? To what extent are you framed by your suffering, and to what extent are your framed because of happy things that have happened to you?

I mentioned mythos, ethnos, and ethos. Specifically Buddhism, then Christianity, and finally Islam, managed to expand beyond their natural boundaries, because they were able to redefine ethnos ... they created a super-tribe(s). Taoism and Confucianism are resolutely Chinese. Judaism is resolutely Jewish. Hinduism is resolutely Indian. Hence they are weaker in the competition for cultural dominance. Humanism's strength is in ethos ... religion only contributes to ethos, because it basically gives sanction to existing cultural norms (which may or may not be ethical), giving divine sanction to tradition. Mythos mostly occurs in scripture (stories), and to an extent, religious ritual is reenactment of that mythos. So Humanism, in rejecting mythos, rejects stories and ritual. To get beyond things as they are, like with Mahayana Buddhism, one has to reinvent, has to move laterally to the current time-line. Any ideas? How about taking a noted fictional or historical humanitarian, who either was not religious or whose story can be excised from its religious context? Possibly Schweitzer and Gandhi, but not MLK.

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Re: What Humanism Means to Me (And What It Doesn't)

Postby evangelicalhumanist on Fri Aug 08, 2008 2:29 pm

Baruch wrote:Because of your suffering, are you sure a lot of who you are isn't formed in reaction to that suffering? To what extent are you framed by your suffering, and to what extent are your framed because of happy things that have happened to you?

I can't answer that in any rational way. My suffering took a very long time to deal with, and a lot of introspection, as well as a sincere attempt to understand how others could/can do what they do. Has that contributed to my humanism? Oh, undoubtedly. Once you come to realize that victimizers are often victims themselves, a whole new level of understanding is available to you, and you'd be surprised how much that can soften one.

But lots good has happened, as well. I'm pretty sure that I'm responsible for some of it, because I try so hard, but there's absolutely no question in my mind that much is due to happenstance, that sometimes "things just happen." That colours my view of the world, as well. Things that have "just happened" may well "unhappen" some day, and although one can never be prepared for it, being aware of it, I think, can change your perspective a little. For one thing, those things that I treasure (like my partner) I take a little better care of than I might otherwise.

I think that everything that happens to you shapes who you are. I think, however, that the shaping ability of events is much stronger earlier in life, and weakens considerably as we go along. That only makes sense, really. a small bird may be buffeted by the wind. An ostrich is likely to stand up to it better. (Oooh! Bad analogy! :roll: )

I mentioned mythos, ethnos, and ethos. Specifically Buddhism, then Christianity, and finally Islam, managed to expand beyond their natural boundaries, because they were able to redefine ethnos ... they created a super-tribe(s). Taoism and Confucianism are resolutely Chinese. Judaism is resolutely Jewish. Hinduism is resolutely Indian. Hence they are weaker in the competition for cultural dominance. Humanism's strength is in ethos ... religion only contributes to ethos, because it basically gives sanction to existing cultural norms (which may or may not be ethical), giving divine sanction to tradition. Mythos mostly occurs in scripture (stories), and to an extent, religious ritual is reenactment of that mythos. So Humanism, in rejecting mythos, rejects stories and ritual. To get beyond things as they are, like with Mahayana Buddhism, one has to reinvent, has to move laterally to the current time-line. Any ideas? How about taking a noted fictional or historical humanitarian, who either was not religious or whose story can be excised from its religious context? Possibly Schweitzer and Gandhi, but not MLK.[/quote]
Interesting job, trying to select a humanist to ponder. The American Humanist Association, for example, has been naming a "Humanist of the Year" since 1953. The list follows, but as near as I can tell, not a single one of them was a person with religious belief.

It seems, I guess, that I'm outnumbered in my strong belief that one can have the essential humanist values without necessarily being a non-believer. I guess that's because I relegate a strictly rational means of understanding the world to secondary importance, after concern for the worth and dignity of every human person.

No wonder I don't get invited to the meetings! (Other than the fact that I haven't joined, I mean.)

Pete Stark - 2008
Joyce Carol Oates - 2007
Steven Pinker - 2006
Murray Gell-Mann - 2005
Daniel C. Dennett - 2004
Sherwin T. Wine - 2003
Steven Weinberg - 2002
Stephen Jay Gould - 2001
Bill Schulz - 2000
Edward O. Wilson - 1999
Barbara Ehrenreich - 1998
Alice Walker - 1997
Richard Dawkins - 1996
Ashley Montagu - 1995
Lloyd Morain - 1994
Mary Morain - 1994
Richard D. Lamm - 1993
Kurt Vonnegut - 1992
Lester R. Brown - 1991
Werner Fornos - 1991
Ted Turner - 1990
Gerald A. Larue - 1989
Leo Pfeffer - 1988
Margaret Atwood - 1987
Faye Wattleton - 1986
John Kenneth Galbraith - 1985
Isaac Asimov - 1984
Lester A. Kirkendall - 1983
Helen Caldicott - 1982
Carl Sagan - 1981
Andrei Sakharov - 1980
Edwin H. Wilson - 1979
Margaret E. Kuhn - 1978
Corliss Lamont - 1977
Jonas E. Salk - 1976
Betty Friedan - 1975
Henry Morgentaler - 1975
Mary Calderone - 1974
Joseph Fletcher - 1974
Thomas Szasz - 1973
B.F. Skinner - 1972
Albert Ellis - 1971
A. Philip Randolph - 1970
R. Buckminster Fuller - 1969
Benjamin Spock - 1968
Abraham H. Maslow - 1967
Erich Fromm - 1966
Hudson Hoagland - 1965
Carl Rogers - 1964
Hermann J. Muller - 1963
Julian Huxley - 1962
Linus Pauling - 1961
Leo Szilard - 1960
Brock Chisholm - 1959
Oscar Riddle - 1958
Margaret Sanger - 1957
C. Judson Herrick - 1956
James P. Warbasse - 1955
Arthur F. Bendley - 1954
Anton J. Carlson - 1953
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Re: What Humanism Means to Me (And What It Doesn't)

Postby Baruch on Fri Aug 08, 2008 7:20 pm

That list is much to recent. Modernist, scientist, intellectual, leftist, Western, urban, atheist ... and a few agnostics. Basically folks who weren't communist enough for the Communist party, but were too Leftist to be mainstream. Defined that way, you couldn't have even got many followers since 1950 ... your definition is everything the reactionaries and their hoi polloi followers love to hate.

In another post, I described much deeper roots for humanism, than Noam Chomsky. I dealt with the ancient humanists. But after that, you had two humanist streams, those who were comfortable in the Church and those who were not. Those who were not, were by and large religious, even mystics, but not conformists. Starting with Boethius in the 500s, on thru to Abelard in the 1100s, you have a wisdom tradition outside the Church, where thought has not been subordinated to the clergy and to theology. Then in the 1200s, you have Petrarch and others, who overcome the attempt to bury the Romans and Greeks, rather than praise them; the Classics are reborn, but denatured, without their original pagan context. It was again possible for moderate Christians to be scholars. From there philosophy and art start to break free of Church control, with the secularist Renaissance and the proto-Reformation (prior to Luther), though the Reformation proper, and the Counter-Reformation following are strictly Church affairs. In that late Medieval time you have such scholars as Desiderius Erasmus. But up until as recently as 1600, there was little evidence that science had any tale to tell, different from Church dogma. The real problem the Church had with Galileo, is that he as not only a freethinker, and a good Catholic (heretics are easier to suppress), but he was willing to publish his views in the vernacular Italian, rather than keeping it in-house, in Latin. That was a challenge no conformist bureaucracy could tolerate. How about basing your Humanism on a figure like Benvenuto Cellini, the Renaissance artist? His autobiography is an adventure classic. No prude, he admitted he had provided young men for the entertainment of Michelangelo. Why do only Anglo-Saxons and 20th century folk need apply?

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Re: What Humanism Means to Me (And What It Doesn't)

Postby evangelicalhumanist on Sat Aug 09, 2008 1:57 pm

I don't disagree with you, but I have to admit a certain amount of ignorance of anything other than surface knowledge of the characters you refer to. Certainly, I shall look out for Cellini's autobiography, on your recommendation.

What I was getting at by posting that list, though, was my own concern with the humanist movement, which seems far too focused on religion (well, actually irreligion) than on the poor uses to which religion is put. I've mentioned before that although I'm not religious, I have no objection to religion, until such time as it is used to hurt or coerce people. But then, I feel the same way about barbed wire, knives and humour. Pretty much anything can be useful, but too often we humans turn these useful things against one another.

It's that which seems so markedly missing from the various humanist movements that I'm aware of. That includes, of course, the American Humanist Association and it's publications, which all too frequently spend time on the follies of religious belief, and all too little on how to make this world a better place by respecting others even with warts, different coloured skin, and beliefs that we don't share.

It's why Mirage and I started this forum, I think.
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Re: What Humanism Means to Me (And What It Doesn't)

Postby Baruch on Sat Aug 09, 2008 3:01 pm

Well I think you are right on top of things as they really are, you are simply too open minded and not sufficiently irreligious to join that list ;-)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benvenuto_Cellini

For a brief view of that superman, Cellini ;-) I just love the Renaissance guys and gals. Ever see the movie The Agony And The Ecstasy with Charleton Heston as Michelangelo?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_of_Foxes_%28film%29 is a great movie starring Tyrone Power and Orson Welles, Tyrone Power starring as a swashbuckler similar to Cellini. The novel it was based on was good too.

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Re: What Humanism Means to Me (And What It Doesn't)

Postby evangelicalhumanist on Thu Oct 02, 2008 3:57 pm

Baruch,

I bought myself a "Sony Reader" this past weekend, and one of the things I can do is download books in PDF format. So I found the Cellini Autobiography at Project Gutenburg, downloaded it, converted it to Adobe and put it on my reader (it can hold 160 books at once!). So I have now begun reading his bio. Thanks for the tip.
evangelicalhumanist: Greek "eu"=good and "angelos"=messenger. Spreading the good news of Humanism.
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